First time tuning for a noob.

[ssgmatt]

Ok, I have a ton of questions and I'm really wanting to learn. First of all Ive already made arrangements with a tuner and dyno in KC to tune my car when I get home from afghanistan (6 months). What I want to know first of all is what do I need to take my car to the tuner so that i can get the best tune possible and still be able to store it in my ap. I already plan on getting a wideband which one is the best for tuning? Ive been going with prosport so far would a Evo be a good choice. What kind of actual sensor is the best? As far as tuning i have never been on a dyno will i need to have tuner race for the tuner to tune my car? I actually think this information would make a good sticky since I havent found one telling you what you'll need and what to do before going to the dyno. Also what do tuners actually do when they tune your car? Ive read all the stickys about reading your logs and half understand them what i dont know is what to do with the information. Once i start using tuner race i would like to know what are you able to change? Fuel ratio, timing, and WGDC?

 

[ssgmatt]

Lets say for instance that at 3500rpm's i start to pull timing would that mean that the ECU has seen knock there? If so could you add fuel there if your not running 100% IDC to compensate for the knock that way you get your timing back? Am i understanding things right or am i way off in how tuning works? The way I'm figuring it works is that your able to control fuel and timing and WGDC? Then you just run your turbo to where its not quite at full capacity then try and get your fuel ratios right for all the way to redline and then if your not at full capacity on your injectors you can advance timing to get more power then go back and forth with timing and fuel till the motor is most efficeint and not running too lean?

 

[IGOTASTi]

We need to get Holy in here. He can explain it better than I can, lol.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Holy shit there are alot of questions there :lol:... I have to go out to dinner with my sister so I would be glad to tackle these questions when I return.

Fuji and many others are just as capable to answer these anyway.

I will report back once i'm statisfied i'm fat enough!!! I might be drunk as well so i might end up telling you how to build a nuclear bomb rather than how to tune your car.

 

[Paul.c]

Another thing to do is to ask your tuner what he is used to tuning. Sometimes you can achieve a better tune if you use products that your tuner knows really well. You don't have to buy them from the tuner(retail is for suckers). What I am trying to get at is talk to your tuner, not that we won't answer these questions.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Ok, I have a ton of questions and I'm really wanting to learn. First of all Ive already made arrangements with a tuner and dyno in KC to tune my car when I get home from afghanistan (6 months). What I want to know first of all is what do I need to take my car to the tuner so that i can get the best tune possible and still be able to store it in my ap. If you prefer the AP and you already have one then that is the method you should be using. I don't know of any Subaru tuners that can't tune with the AP. You will not have to download ATR because the tuner should have ATPro if he is a Cobb certified tuner. If not then he may ask you to download ATR and bring it with you. Either way you can use your AP and store the MAPs. I will reiterate what Paul said and speak to your tuner to find out what is best and what he needs from you. I already plan on getting a wideband which one is the best for tuning? Innovate or AEM... I prefer the AEM because it is VERY simple to hook up and just as accurate as the Innovate. getting it to communicate with the computer through the serial port for logging is easier... Just signal and ground. Ive been going with prosport so far would a Evo be a good choice. What kind of actual sensor is the best? all of the wide band meters come with the sensor and you would be surprised to know that they are all pretty much the same sensor made by Bosch As far as tuning i have never been on a dyno will i need to have tuner race for the tuner to tune my car? Answered I actually think this information would make a good sticky since I havent found one telling you what you'll need and what to do before going to the dyno. Check or change your Oil... Check and top off your coolant and break fluid... Check all your hoses for leaks and cracks and wire tie all your hoses in place... Check your tires and fill them properly with the recommended pressure. Take something to read because you could be there for a long time. Also what do tuners actually do when they tune your car? Any good tuner will define and tune your fuel, spark, AVCS and Boost to not only work with the setup but to also work in conjunction with each other. They should tune for drivability and performance by tackling the closed loop fueling separate from the open loop fueling. A really good tuner will also adjust for differences in climate and cold start. Ive read all the stickys about reading your logs and half understand them what i dont know is what to do with the information. Once i start using tuner race i would like to know what are you able to change? Fuel ratio, timing, and WGDC? The very first thing you need to do is to read a book on basic tuning concepts. Then look at the various tuning guides that are specific to Subaru... Cobb's tuning guide is a good start and it comes with AccessTuner Race. I will be releasing a tuning guide to paid members soon also. It is a bit more in depth and specific. But by know means should you dive into the ECU with out prior knowledge of what each table and parameter does. I encourage everyone to try a little tuning now and then but if you don't know what you are doing it could come at great cost.

Lets say for instance that at 3500rpm's i start to pull timing would that mean that the ECU has seen knock there? If so could you add fuel there if your not running 100% IDC to compensate for the knock that way you get your timing back? First it depends if the timing being pulled as a result of feedback or learned knock correction. If it is feedback then yes it is pulling timing because of a real time knock event. If it is learned it only means it is pulling timing because it heard knock in that spot before and is now compensating for it but there may or may not be knock. When compensating for knock there are two approaches to take and one is to increase fuel but be careful here. Increasing fuel beyond the ideal AFR for making power can significantly reduce your performance and in some cases cause knock itself. The power you end up losing is greater that the power you lose by just decreasing timing which is the second and preferred method by most. You can decrease timing and make up any loss of power with the turbo. The really good tuners take the time to find the balance of fuel and timing and boost together. Am i understanding things right or am i way off in how tuning works? you are off to a great start The way I'm figuring it works is that your able to control fuel and timing and WGDC? Then you just run your turbo to where its not quite at full capacity then try and get your fuel ratios right for all the way to redline and then if your not at full capacity on your injectors you can advance timing to get more power then go back and forth with timing and fuel till the motor is most efficeint and not running too lean? All right with the exception of the relationship between injectors and timing. Timing has little to no effect on injectors capacity but it may have a little effect on final fueling. It is air flow through the engine that determines fuel along with how you define your fuel tables. AVCS has a profound effect on air flow and therefor fuel but ignition timing does not. Just set your fuel tables and adjust your maf. Then work on timing separate. You generally want to bring your timing to the threshold of knock and then back off a few degrees. Rinse and repeat both Fuel and Timing. Also don't confuse efficiency with power. When your engine is most efficient you may not be making much power at all. Volumetric Efficiency is the key... That equates to power. The more volume efficient a motor is the more air is being delivered to the cylinder. The key to that is AVCS and component matching and head work

I typed all of this while drunk out my mind and high... I have no idea what I just said :tard:

 

[ssgmatt]

Wow thank you. You should post drunk all the time. I understood all of that and it helped alot with putting all the stuff I read in your other posts together in my head. Any suggestions on what books to get?

 

[Bluedemon_II]

Wow thank you. You should post drunk all the time. I understood all of that and it helped alot with putting all the stuff I read in your other posts together in my head. Any suggestions on what books to get?

You don't know what you are asking for lol... Just wait till fuji chimes in with about 3 cans of four lokos on him... epic.

 

[Bluedemon_II]

That's probably why I haven't chimed in yet. :tard:

That and I've been a little busy... Finally updated my own journal for the first time in idk how many months and still haven't fixed the first post.

Bah at least you have something to put in your journal that is subaru related. All I have to talk about right now is a v8, a Suzuki for offroad and a brand new jeep that breaks down more than the susuki... Yey!:tard:


Back on topic: I never actually read any books on the topic. I skimmed threw Romraider.com for a lot of useful information! This is a good place to start: http://www.romraider.com/Documentation/TuningFAQ

There are some great books on general tuning strategies and concepts that applies to most cars, but i like to read and familiarize my self with the one that I own. Never the less you need to be careful with some stuff that you might read on forums... There are misinformed people out there spreading the gospel in flip flops....