Cobb Tuning Plano Motor FAILED.

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booSTi

New member
Hey guys..
I?ve had one of the worst experiences I have had with any tuning shop. Cobb Tuning Plano built and tuned my car. I live in Oklahoma City and I decided to trust them with the build and take it down that far because of the good experiences I had read and heard about. The build consisted of .20 bore and forged pistons, stock rods, stock heads, cams. They removed and built the motor then installed it and off I went.

I did a turbo swap and ran a parallel fuel system and off I went to get tuned. This was on September 30th 2011.
The car made 403whp and 392wtq on 21.79 psi on E85.

If felt awesome, the drivability was outstanding. Two days later my car developed a knock. I called Cobb Tuning Plano and Neil advised me to tow the car down there so they can look at it. Before I went down I removed the intercooler pipe, fuel line, and timing cover to inspect the tensioner and see if that was the culprit, unfortunately everything checked out perfectly.

I trailed my car down that following weekend, October 8th 2011. We started my car so that Calvin and Neil could listen to it. They confirmed it wasn?t a spun bearing and sounded like a rod.

On October 18th Neil called me with the compression results. 155, 155, 145, 120. They were almost certain it was a bent rod. They tore the motor apart and Neil told me that the motor had one bent rod and it was because of detention because of the fuel leak, or my E85 blend. Keep in mind I only had the leak because I took the intercooler pipe off to check the tensioner. I didn?t drive it with a knock. They said that they weren?t going to cover it because of the fuel leak. And I was fuel that I had gone and got tuned on so that was out of the question in my head but they disagreed.

What they said to me made absolutely no sense at the time but I did not know what to say, so I asked for pictures of the plugs and I never got them. They never sent me any pictures of anything so basically I was supposed to believe everything that they were telling me.

A month or passed by and I didn?t hear anything, I called headquarters and they didn?t do much help and I still hadn?t heard. Then I called Cobb in Oregon and they had Plano call me promptly. Plano had told me on the phone about a week earlier that they would test the E85 content then call me RIGHT back. That is why I called Cobb in Oregon because that was the only Cobb besides in California that I hadn?t spoke with.

I won?t really explain further details because my email that is below proves them wrong in every aspect of what they are telling me.
The sad part is, I have so many people asking me about my experience with Cobb, STi?s, Mazdaspeed 3?s, 335i?s. If you have your 30k dollar car 200 miles away with nothing but excuses coming from the people that run this reputable shop, how would you feel?

I feel like I?m being taken advantage of because of how far away I am and I cannot see anything in person, and from customers stand point that is truly unfair and unethical. I feel like when I spend 7k dollars on a simple motor build I should get the benefit of the doubt not them. Especially since I?m not even close
Basically my car has been in Plano since the beginning of October and we have made NO progress, and NO emails have been replied too.
I resorted to publicizing this issue because I?m sick of this and I don?t want any other enthusiast to go through this same thing with their car. And I KNOW for a fact they read the emails because a friend went and got tuned the 19th which was the day after I sent the email and they told him that cylinder 2 and 4 were hurt blah blah. I HAD said that in the email as you will find out after reading it. This is the 4th time they have changed the story and not even replied to me.

I?m sure I am missing a lot but this gives you an idea of what I?ve been going through.

I need advice, what would you guys do if you were in a situation like this?

This is the email I received from Neil on October 18th 2011;
Shawn, I spoke with Chris regarding your engine repair. We measured the Ethanol content in the car to be E-82. Ethanol content percentage is unlikely the culprit. While we can't say exactly how you broke the motor it is pretty obvious it was from massive detonation. Detonation such as this is most likely caused by low fuel pressure due to fuel leaks at the fuel supply under the hood. Another possible contributing factor to this failure might be an overboost event, overboost during high load with a lean AFR may well be how the motor died.

The engine shows no signs of impropper assembly and the tune that Calvin put on the car was right in line with other tunes on similar setups, so we are confident that your failure did not arise from either the engine assembly or the ECU calibration.

The repair of your engine will take either new engine block halves, or sleeving to make right because the massive detonation has distorted the trueness of the cylinders by as much as .005". Another option would be to install a new or used (good condition!) shortblock. I appreciate that this failure has come at a bad time for you. I spoke with Chris and he has agreed to give you a 20% discount on the labor for this repair.

My response to this email;
Chris and Neil,
I appreciate you guys getting back with me.
You?re absolutely right about the E82 content. It is very hard to detonate on Ethanol as it is, and it being E85-2 like I first said that takes my fuel out of the equation. I fuel up at RS fuels in Oklahoma City. The owner is very involved in modifying cars and is a friend of mine. He mixes his E85 with E100 so it?s always E85. We also now have E100 readily available at the pump.

When Neil initially called me, he told me that the compression of the motor was 155, 155, 145, and 120. In the email you?re stating that more one cylinder was hurt, and with those numbers it is very obvious damage was only done to one cylinder. With me not being there, it?s very difficult to make oneself trust something they hear without seeing it, and being told a couple of different things makes me wonder if everyone is being honest in this situation. If it was a fueling issue it would have been apparent in more than one cylinder. I ran a parallel fuel system to keep constant pressure throughout all four injectors. If this was an event of massive detention it would have been apparent in more than just one cylinder. You stated that the second cylinder was hurt, which means in turn if the second cylinder was starved from fuel that means that the 4th cylinder would be in the exact same condition. The compression test proves otherwise. That is just basic physics.

You guys stated that the cylinder wall had been pushed out. This is because of the bent connecting rod. If the connecting rod is bent it is making the cylinder put pressure on the side of the cylinder walls because it is going up and down, well side to side in an abnormal cycle.

I trusted you guys with the motor build and tune and you guys knew exactly what was in the motor and what the safe limits should be. The most likely causes for the bent rod are either too much ignition timing or over boost. Which both of these should have been accounted for in the tune. Why wasn?t the over boost protection, or boost cut setup when Calvin was tuning it? Some people are completely oblivious to cars and how they act under certain circumstances. This means this tune should have been safe for my mother to drive it and get on the highway flooring it in 6th gear at 3k RPMS. You guys knew the temperature was dropping and colder air is denser which means more air and that should have definitely been taken into consideration before I left your shop. When one brings their car to Cobb Tuning a well known reputable shop they expect it to perform to the max, and most importantly safely. Not everyone can scarf up over seven thousand dollars and spend it on an engine just that it can fail just shortly after.
Everyone that asks about your reputation I always give Cobb Tuning awesome feedback in their awesome, honest and trustworthy work. With me constantly talking about my solid experience it has brought down and will bring down more people to Cobb Tuning. I hope to keep this experience a solid one.
Shawn A.

Email I sent to Chris as to why they haven?t responded to my email which you just read above, sent November 27, 2011;
I sent this on November 18th, 2011. I have not received a response so I figured I would email you directly.
I'm confused as to why no one has put forth the effort into getting back with me. I tried to deal with mainly one person so I would get one straight forward answer, but I feel like I'm being taken advantage of. Every person I speak with is either using my words against me and saying that's what happened to the motor, or I get completely different answers from the people that I talk to. I have NO pictures and nothing to go off of besides the compression test. Every time I speak with you guys you come up with different interpretations as to what happened. I just want a response to the previous email that is below. We cannot move forward with this situation if you guys are not willing to communicate with me.


Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and i will greatly appreciate and help and advise that can be given.
 
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IGOTASTi

System Operator
Staff member
Wow looks like you got a problem. You are not the first person to have a issue with Cobb from the same shop. Last issue they took care of 100% and no issues where had. When you call you get no answer?

Thanks for being so professional also in this time of your problem. :tup:
 

ZachTTLM

New member
I would say start resorting to phone call, use a recorder to record the entire phone conversation. Just remember that you need to make them aware that you are recording the conversation before actual conversation begins.
 

Vermont

New member
Wow, I am not a big fan of having any one work on my car besides my self due to bad experiances with shops in the Springs, but this is a first I have heard of for Cobb in Plano. If any thing their record with customer service has been exemplary. I find this very disturbing that they would be so difficult to work with after you have spent $7,000 on them with an engine build and tune. Also that price seems rather high.

If you could keep this thread updated that would be great as I think I speak for every one here in that I would like to see how this turns out.
 

HolyCrapItsFast

Drinks beer!
I will remain skeptical until i have heard Cobb's side of the story.

Please do keep this up to date.
 

Z1107

New member
I don't know. This is the second time we've seen the Plano facility give initial contact customer service problems after a major malfunction. Don't get me wrong they corrected the first complaint but after what I feel was a lengthy period.

BooSTi check out cobbtunedSTis journal he had a similar run in and got it corrected might be some help to your situation.
 

ZachTTLM

New member
I would also like to point out that they are making the comment about fuel leak, and you said that was from you messing around checking things. If you just spent that money on a build and they told you to trailer it down for anyone in the future don't touch no matter who you are going to. This takes away any issues of the chance of it being because you messed with it, because as a shop I would see it was tampered with and begin to wonder. Yes I understand you said this was done while checking it out but at the same time you are expecting me to take your word on it, not saying you aren't honest but it is alot to ask for, but that is no reason for lack of communication.
 

Vermont

New member
I would also like to point out that they are making the comment about fuel leak, and you said that was from you messing around checking things. If you just spent that money on a build and they told you to trailer it down for anyone in the future don't touch no matter who you are going to. This takes away any issues of the chance of it being because you messed with it, because as a shop I would see it was tampered with and begin to wonder. Yes I understand you said this was done while checking it out but at the same time you are expecting me to take your word on it, not saying you aren't honest but it is alot to ask for, but that is no reason for lack of communication.

100% agree with this ^. I would dearly like to hear their side of the story as well. If only for an explination as to why they have been hard to contact with you.
 

IGOTASTi

System Operator
Staff member
I agree I want to hear both sides, but he does make a good point.
 

SirMyztiq

Member
I recently had my car worked on by COBB in Plano. Of course, it wasn't anything as big as an engine build but it was still pretty pricey.

I would say their overall work was fantastic. It did take a little too much time but I gave them the benefit of the doubt since I know they are busy 100% of the time and fixing something like a leaky car can take a while. After I got the car back from them, they let me know I just needed to fix an intake manifold gasket leak. They were spot on about everything else and I recently fixed that intake gasket leak and the car runs mean now.

However, I would agree their communication can be worked on. I tend to stick with emails with the idea that calling them might be a little too pushy. I've worked the customer service side of things while I was in college and I know that sometimes not all customers get priority and I understood that. But there were many times where I would get no response nor a call back. I would email them twice sometimes until they responded. I worked with Neil during my experience and other than the lack of communication sometimes, he was great to work with.

I got the feeling that they might be understaffed. They have Neil and one other person working at the front. That is it. The rest are all mechanics and don't really deal with the customer fronting experience from what I saw. While I waited, I would hear the phone ring 100x(exaggeration, but quite a lot) and a lot of times it seemed to be someone calling and asking something like "what exhaust is better?" or something that could easily be researched. Two people working at the front for a reputable tuning shop that is probably in one of the most centralized areas of North Texas doesn't seem to be nearly enough.

We all know that lack of communication can turn a good experience into a bad one. Even if they are right about what is covered or not, it doesn't help put the customer at ease that there isn't any sort of communication. That is customer service 101. Always communicate and explain thoroughly. I hope you can work this out. There aren't many tuning shops around Dallas that I know of. You could always get a second opinion on the matter. Have your car picked up and towed somewhere else. It is costly but it will help clear things up I think. I've found one other tuning place in the Dallas area, I never had to deal with them but they have quite a following and might be a good place for a second opinion. If you look at their FB page, there is one comment about one of their clients complaining about a busted engine and they are having the chat right there on FB! I guess you can't complain about their communication. :D

http://awdtuning.com/


 
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booSTi

New member
Their side of the story is in the email. That is ALL they are going off of. The story has changed everytime i have talked to them. I made sure everything i put in the thread is accuarate so i don't look like a fool later on.

If the vehicle lost THAT much fuel pressure and went that LEAN it would have been obvious when driving the car and e85 would be spraying everywhere. And with the parallel fuel system another cylinder should be in the EXACT same condition (2 bent rods) if it lost fuel pressure, the compression test says otherwise. If it went that lean, it would have melted the piston to the wall, killed the dome of it, hammered the bearing out before 'bending a rod'

At any rate, to keep the customer happy, and for me to reccomend business their way including mine it shouldn't be a doubt in their mind to fix the car. They would be losing a lot more in the long run. No professional business would stretch something like this out a long time. It is just sketchy. After i finally proved them wrong about how the fuel leak couldn't have caused the engine to 'bend a rod' and my e85 content was fine i havent heard anything.

Giving me the benefit of the doubt with me being 200 miles away is the least they can do. All they are saying is this, that and the other and i have no pictures like im supposed to just believe what they are saying, and im not! I dont want pictures now, how can i believe that they havent altered the crime scene? I cant/wont believe it anymore because i've lost trust with them..

There was a point where they said the emails werent going through. So i provided them with another email and thats the email address Neil sent the email above and the email i have replied to and also emailed Chris with.
 

HolyCrapItsFast

Drinks beer!
I understand what you are saying and I am not, in anyway, suggesting this didn't happen to you. All I'm saying is I won't pass judgement on any one party until I have heard both sides of the story and from each individual. What you posted is not definitive proof of wrong doing. It is all just according to you right now.

Cobb does have a user account here and with any luck they will chime in. I would hope they do because this is in the public eye right now and it would be in their best interest to get this resolved so both parties are satisfied.

I am very sorry this is happening to you right now and I wish you the best :tup:
 

booSTi

New member
Absolutely! I just wanted to expand on it a little more. Looking forward to hearing their side.
 

Paul.c

New member
I'm not saying that your side of the story is false, but I also reserve my judgement until I hear 2 sides of the story. I have seen too many of these tuner bashing threads end abrubtly after both sides were given. I personally know multiple people with COBB tuned cars in various brands with zero issues (I work in Plano, and live 10 mins south). I also would like to advise anyone with an issue with a tuner not to touch their car until inspected. Just like you stated that you don't know if they tampered with evidence they can say the same about you. I saw that JJ posted on their FB wall asking for input in the situation.
 

cobb tuning

New member
We have been extremely busy, however we strive to do what we can to make everyone satisfied. Here is Calvin's communication that was sent to you two days ago:

"Shawn,

I know it can be frustrating communicating with many different people at the same time so I will simply state the technical data and my finding from the disassemble and inspection of your engine.

The initial diagnoses of a bent rod was only that, my initial possible diagnoses based on just listening to the engine with it still in the car. Once we removed and disassembled your engine what we found was one broken piston on cylinder #4 and one bent piston on cylinder #2 and both cylinders have been pushed out, that is why the compression numbers were low in only one cylinder the bent piston still allowed for good compression but was still damaged. The cause of this was extreme cylinder pressure caused by pre-ignition. Pre-ignition happens when the air/fuel mixture is ignited before the spark event, this is different from detonation and E85 is still capable of pre-ignition and can happen when the mixture becomes very lean. Since both cylinders that were damaged were on the same bank of the engine then the root cause is something that is common to those two cylinders that can cause a lean condition since the car came to us with a fuel leak at the fuel rail on the same side of the engine that the damage was on and knowing the state of tune of the car we have to assume that the fuel leak caused the fueling of cylinder #2&#4 to become lean and cause pre-ignition.

Unfortunately your engine parts are at our machinist's shop right now so we are unable to send you pictures of the damage but once we get them back we will be able to take pictures and send them your way.

I hope this will give you a better understanding of what we found with your engine."
 

cobbtunedsti

New member
Plano helped me out in a big way! I'm still very greatful.. But that car was a curse..
Maybe Chris will go halfs with you??? Shawn has miles where on your new engine!
 

SirMyztiq

Member
Plano helped me out in a big way! I'm still very greatful.. But that car was a curse..
Maybe Chris will go halfs with you??? Shawn has miles where on your new engine!

I vouch for COBB for sure. I mean, some of you guys helped me when I was trying to find the damn leak. I was only looking FOR ONE. JUST ONE leak I was looking for and I was ready to blow the car into pieces in some sort of insurance scam! When Neil took a look, within a minute he found a tear in my turbo inlet...once I turned her over, turned out she was leaking from everywhere and it STILL wasn't enough. Then they pointed me to the intake manifold leak and I wanted to do it myself just to get that experience(although my brother ended up doing most of it :D) and voila. No more leak! My fuel trims are awesome.

I just thought I would balance all the negative views with some positive ones :)
 
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