I call him and he states he sees where the sensor is failing and advises me to reach out to Cobb to get the sensor replaced. After some questions they respond
Aaron Foo (COBB) (COBB Support)
Feb 19, 9:36 AM CST
Hey Richard!
Looking over that datalog that you provided it does indeed look like a Flex Fuel harness failure.
Can you please also provide:
Billing/Shipping Address
Phone number
Aaron Foo (COBB) (COBB Support)Feb 19, 9:36 AM CST
Hey Richard!
Looking over that datalog that you provided it does indeed look like a Flex Fuel harness failure.Can you please also provide:Billing/Shipping AddressPhone number
I call this representative and ask if it could have hurt my motor. He states no that the sensor is limp mode so to speak and that once I install the new sensor all will be good. I receive the new sensor and get it installed and still the car runs like shit. So I reach out to Shawn at Kraken motorsports and he advises me to pull the spark plugs and see if one has fouled out. I pull the plugs and find one that is melted
I call Shawn and he advises me to bring the car to him. It takes him about a month to get back to me and states that the car not only melted that plug but burned a hole in one of the valves. SAY WHAT?!! I call Cobb and tell them exactly what had happened and they stated they would reach out to Calvin and Shawn. I then drive out to Kraken's shop to see the car and to speak with Shawn. While I am there Shawn is speaking with Cobb and then hands me the phone. The representative states that the sensor was not the cause of the burnt spark plug or valve and that it must have been a mechanical failure that caused this and they would not be doing anything to assist with the repair. Shawn with Kraken Motorsports tell me that it would cost $4k-$5k to pull the motor and repair the valves and heads and that he does not know of any mechanical failure that would have caused that but assured me it would not have damaged the short block.
I at this point am about to lose my shit so decide to go home cool off and email Cobb, Shawn with Kraken and Calvin with Dotson Tuning. Email below
From: Richard Wegmann <rickwegmann@me.com>
Date: 3/31/2020
To:
support@cobbtuning.com,Calvin Dotson <calvin@dotsontuning.com>,Shawn Rizzo <shawn@kraken-motorsports.com>
Subject: Flex Fuel Kit Failure - Support Ticket
#436803
It was explained to me today by a representative at Cobb that the attached Accesport Log dated 2-17-2020 originally sent to Calvin Dotson of Dotson tuning shows that the Cobb flex-fuel sensor although failing was not the cause of engine failure experienced during this log but in fact a mechanical failure not associated with that flex-fuel sensor whatsoever. I would like it explained to me how you arrived that it was a mechanical failure not caused by the sensor and what type of mechanical failure would cause this. The engine failure experienced is a melted spark plug & valves per Shawn at Kraken Motorsports who built and installed the motor. I have also attached the log that was sent on 2-16-2020 to Calvin Dotson which shows no signs of a failing sensor or a possible mechanical failure that occurred the very next day.
The representative responds
Matthew Bryant (COBB Support)
Apr 1, 11:18 AM CDT
Hey Rick,
My name is Matt Bryant. I'm the Customer Service Manager at COBB, and also the one that you spoke with yesterday evening.
Below is a screenshot of the failure in the 2/3 gear pull you made and sent over to Aaron (COBB)/Calvin (Kraken) originally when we warrantied the flex fuel module.
?
As I mentioned on the phone yesterday, the module did indeed fail (indicated in red). You can see the voltage drop down to 0.1. However, due to the programming we've instituted, and the configuration of Calvin's tune, you can see that "Ethanol Final (%)" did not skew to any notable degree. It was consistent at around 72%-73%. Ethanol Final is what the calibration references for tuning purposes. Given that Ethanol Final did not skew, I'm confident in saying that the failure of the module did not contribute to your mechanical failure.
As for the datalogs you sent over:
- datalog 2-16 has no failures. SNS Volts TGV L (V) is rock solid with minimal variation. Referencing Ethanol Final (%), it is also rock solid with minimal variation between 72%-73% measure ethanol.
- datalog 2-17 has no failures. SNS Volts TGV L (V) is rock solid with minimal variation. Referencing Ethanol Final (%), it is also rock solid with minimal variation between 72%-73% measure ethanol.
As for what caused this failure, one can only guess. In my expert opinion, given the nature of this car (race car build, large turbo, built motor internals, nearly maxed fuel system, ~500wHP) I would suspect that something merely failed due to the high stress/heat that's associated with making that kind of power. Things break all the time on a totally stock car, not to mention especially when you're pushing them this hard as you are. Perhaps a spark plug failed, or the fuel pump had a hiccup, or who knows. Modern engines, not to mention heavily modified ones, are incredibly complicated beasts, so it's really tough to say, given the information I have on hand. I wish I could offer more direction, but Kraken and Calvin will be better resources for guiding you through this.
Apologies for not being able to take your call. I wanted to make sure that I had all the information at hand and had ample time to review your logs prior to chatting. If you'd like to speak later this afternoon, feel free to let me know, and I'll be happy to give you a call.
He obviously didn't look very well as the logs and the point of failure so I take the liberty to point it out in my response
From: Richard Wegmann <rickwegmann@me.com>
Date: 4/1/2020
To: COBB Support <support@cobbtuning.com>
Cc: Kraken Motorsports <calvin@dotsontuning.com>,Shawn <shawn@kraken-motorsports.com>
Subject: Re: [COBB Support] Re: Phone Call from: Richard Wegmann
Matthew,
Your observation pertaining to the ethanol content being consistent at around 72% - 73% during the 2 / 3 gear pull is incorrect. We are all in agreement that the actual ethanol content in the car for both logs was in the 72%-73% range. I want to explore the log provided on 2-17 when the engine failure occurred. That engine failure occurred during the cells 2275-2320 when sorted by column A Time (sec)
Cells 2275 ? 2283 shows Ethanol Final (%) 73.3 and Ethanol Raw (%) 73.3-73.6 which is normal when sensor working correctly as confirmed by 2-16 log.
Cell 2284 shows Ethanol Final (%) 73.3 and Ethanol Raw (%) drop to 50.2
Cell 2285 shows Ethanol Final (%) 73.3 and Ethanol Raw (%) drop to 0 when I let off the throttle and change gears
Cells 2286-2302 shows Ethanol Final (%) drop from the 73.3 to a low of 65.2 and Ethanol Raw (%) bounces around from 0 ? 73.3
Why is the ethanol final (%) dropping down to 65.2 when the last good reading was 73.3? Also, I don?t see ignition timing changing to compensate for this drop. This is where I hear the car sounds different and not accelerating as quickly and where I got the engine failure but didn?t know it.
I let off the throttle and then get back into it and then realize I have an issue.
Once I arrive home I send the log over to Calvin and then subsequently over to you guys
He responds
Matthew Bryant (COBB Support)
Apr 1, 6:56 PM CDT
Hey Rick,
Thanks for allowing me time to review your email/logs.
Your concern of Ethanol Final (%) variation, notable between shifts, could be contributed to by the ethanol sensor placement. For the most accurate/consistent performance,
we've designed it to be installed within the pressurized system, pre-FPR (fuel pressure regulator). It may be worth confirming that you have it installed in that fashion. If you have it post-FPR, that would indicate why you see the fluctuations when shifting (low pump duty cycle (as you're off throttle), the return line would be nearly empty, the ethanol sensor would calculate erroneous values). Again, the fluctuations in the readout of Ethanol Final are minimal during steady states of throttle.
Even the Ethanol Final swing of 8.1% (65.2% vs. 73.3%) you mentioned would only account for about a small percentage change (single digit) in actual fueling, which is absolutely not enough to cause harm. For that matter, I didn't see any terribly concerning/red-flag lean conditions that would lead to a damaged spark plug or valve.
I still stand by my original statement that I don't believe the module is responsible for the reported engine damage.