New Perrin CAI doesn't require retune.

Robert Viehweger

Daily Driver

Grinder34

Track Monkey
so this is one of those things that just seems weird (intake = tune). I've learned to accept it. Maybe the stock MAF is near max already and cant scale any more air? IF the intake doesnt get more (purposefully throttles) but DOES give colder air, then i could believe it.

But I'll admit, the intake = tune has always been a headshaker for me.
 

IGOTASTi

System Operator
Staff member
There telling people 15 to 20 HP gains without a tune.

HOLY CRAP!
 

Alin

Diehard Car Enthusiast!
There telling people 15 to 20 HP gains without a tune.

HOLY CRAP!

Lol and people believe it?!?!

Maybe newbies but the knowledgable ones will speak up.... Eventually... Maybe??? :lol:
 

Spamby

Meat Product Toy
PERRIN PERFORMANCE If your car is 100% bone stock, you will not require a retune. However, if you have any other mods, you will need a tune.
10 hours ago


  • **protecting the innocent** Does this one piece intake for 09+ use the same stage 1 tune v300 as your previous two piece intake tune v311 ?
    21 hours ago
So I am confused at the contradiction here. No tune required and now retune. I guess if your running a stage one Perrin tune then you need a retune from Perrin. What about if your running a Cobb OTS tune that utilizes the stock intake and supposed factory MAF scaling? Would you need a retune running Cobb's stage 1 even though this CAI uses an implied factory MAf scaling?
 

HolyCrapItsFast

Drinks beer!
Maybe Perrin did the research and testing to claim this but I would remain skeptical until I have seen a log.

I can tell you from experience that, for Subaru, most aftermarket intakes require a tune mostly becasue they change the way the air moves past the MAF sensor. In this case the flow is not laminar but is offset from the MAF center. This can cause serious discrepancies with fuel trims and cause the ECU to make compensations for nonexistent conditions.

The only intake I know of that corrects the flow prior to the MAF and does not require a tune is Cobb
 
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IGOTASTi

System Operator
Staff member
Still never heard of an intake on an STi making 15 to 20 HP without a tune.
 

Alin

Diehard Car Enthusiast!
Is there an astericks at the end of their statement? :lol:
 
I've never known any car that needed a tune for just an intake.

You couldnt be more wrong. You need to do some more reading

Hondas and fords, no.. Subaru has very tight tolerances for air and fuel, though. It's a gamble.

Eh, kinda. These automakers use a different type of fuel commanding technology also known as MAP based fueling. The reason why you can get away without a tune is because the KPA that the map sensor reads is, well, what it reads. if there is more air coming in then the map that dictates how much air is coming is injects the corresponding fuel that matches the fuel table. Therefore you will always get the correct AFR's that the fuel map dictates everytime without a tune.

But I'll admit, the intake = tune has always been a headshaker for me.

Let me blow your mind.

The values dictated in the tune for the stock subaru intake systems is FOR THAT INTAKE. so if you change it out then you have to alter the tune. Why? here is why. the stock box flows a certain way and has resonators built in to get the most consistent and accurate airflow that leads to the most optimal airflow for the best drivability possible. When tuning streetcars, your idle and part throttle are the most crucial parts of any tune. Subaru puts their credibility and reputation on the line and therefore go to far lengths in order to ensure they can put the best running car on the street as an answer to other competition from other automakers. Speed, looks, and power is just the icing on the cake.

Aftermarket intakes are simply made and dont incorporate all of the engineering and technology that is associated with the stock box. They are cheap to manufacture and you pay for the name. Their purpose is very simple and differ greatly from the stock system. There are alot of specifics here but im not going to go that far into it. You can research it yourself or take my word for it. stock system incorporates airflow screens, resonators, a design that dictates specific flow pattern and other engineering features that make up this system. Along with that alot of r&d testing and calibration time goes into it. They cost is minimal since there are dictated engineering teams that do this across all their vehicles that keep costs manageable. When you think of name brand intakes most of them compromise of just some metal tubing and an air filter. simple. How many do you think actually spend alot of time r&d'ing, testing, fitting, calibrating, and engineering on these? Not much. why? because in order to justify money and time spent on that would include an EXPENSIVE intake and when you look at the price of all the intakes out there and what people are willing to spend, the reason why becomes clear. and really there isnt much reason to take it that far. kids buy anything. As long as the maf tube stays the same size these brands figure it is "good enough" and for the most part it is. Is a tune ABSOLUTELY essential? no. Will the car run like stock? No Way. that is where the tune comes in. Every intake i have seen is off. just the way an intake tube bends can affect airflow and throw your trims off. CAI's are the worst when it comes to flow and FUBAR'ing trims. short rams are ok. The only intake that i have seen that has done the best is the COBB SRI. This makes sense because look at the design of it. The sensor is really close to the filter making it undisrupted by erratic flow patterns AND it has an airflow straightener built in to keep it consistent. This is the only intake i MIGHT consider not needing a tune. if your maf housing is a different size (bigger) then there is no question that you will need a tune because bigger housing means more air passes through and a slower velocity and with stock values, the amount of air read and going into the motor of a 70mm housing is not going to be the same as the amount of air that passes through at the same rate and read by the maf in an 83mm housing means more in the motor and it starts going lean (think about it) hence tune needed.

When people think of tuning they automatically think tune=get more power. This is not the case AT ALL. Tuning is another word for calibrating. Calibration ensures all sensors are working properly=a great running car. with that being said there is nothing better than the stock box and stock maf scaling (tune). There is no need to change unless you are overloading the maf due to a bigger turbo. at which point i would just suggest buying the proper maf housing that you can attatch a filter on the end with a corresponding air straightener or go MAP based. Everything else is just too shifty. can it work? sure, it just wont run like stock and drive as nice but many people seem to sacrifice that with false advertising of "AWESOME HP GAINS" which really isnt the case if you just read all of this. Is there a gain? yea, cooler intake temps are possible (tune required), maybe a little more airflow, increased efficiency of the turbo (tune required), and the like. Is it enough to get all drooling about? No, because the majority of people on here suck oil into their motors through the stock EVAP system or worn out motors and experience higher temps from the turbo anyway because they are pushing them out of their compressor range or dont know that turbo's blow hot air anyway. That is why IAT's on a subaru motor can never be trusted because they are incorporated into the maf and not placed on the IM where they should be. But now im just ranting...
 
i hope i set it straight.

anyway, I just want to put this out there before people start wondering about running out of maf. I have what seems to be a slightly smaller than stock maf housing that just about had it at around 350whp. Keep in mind its a rough figure and you can get there without botching calibration figures. I'm running a garrett "blowzilla" (t4/gt40) at about 20psi that popped a CEL for maf overload. HOLYCRAPITSFAST can let you guys in more about it on this thread if he chooses to do so.
 
Good post Fuji, I'd learned some of that before, but I didn't ever pay attention (or learn) the difference between MAP and MAF. Explains a LOT.
 

Grinder34

Track Monkey
Subaru puts their credibility and reputation on the line and therefore go to far lengths in order to ensure they can put the best running car on the street....


the majority of people on here suck oil into their motors through the stock EVAP

I dont really disagree with anything you said. Most auto makers put more $$$ into the engineering of a doorhandle than any aftermarket company does to any part they produce.

But Subaru's tune from the factory is pretty well known to be bad, especially on my year (07) so dont go fooling yourself into thinking that they put the best running car on the street. If they were really awesome they'd have fixed that, gone to SD, etc... They did the best they cared to given the time it takes to do a good tune, EPA, etc.

You even say yourself how the stock EVAP system is crap, so what makes you think that the intake they designed is the best thing ever? The ringlands they specced out arent and neither are the oil pickups.

Im just saying, calm down a bit. Subaru != God.

In a "properly" designed intake, a tune should not need a retune. What both you and Holy said makes sense...in a poorly made intake. Or in an intake purposefully designed to be weird. Why not put the MAF a tiny bit farther back so the flow can laminarize no matter what intake/element is put on?
 

Robert Viehweger

Daily Driver
Here was their response to my confusion.. Just figured someone might like to pick it apart and review it

  • PERRIN PERFORMANCE- Most modern cars use a Mass Air Flow based ECU, so anytime you see more air, fuel is automatically added. When you have an intake system that frees up air flow (no restriction), it will automatically add more fuel and make more HP. The thing is, your statement is wrong if the car already runs a richer AFR. You can add more air and NOT add more fuel, which will gain HP leaning out the AFR. So speaking generally about this topic, can be kind of hard. There are a lot of variables to describing how this works and why it makes power. This may be better done over the phone with a tech. Give us a call if you'd like more information, (503)-693-1702
 

Spamby

Meat Product Toy
Here was their response to my confusion.. Just figured someone might like to pick it apart and review it

  • PERRIN PERFORMANCE- Most modern cars use a Mass Air Flow based ECU, so anytime you see more air, fuel is automatically added. When you have an intake system that frees up air flow (no restriction), it will automatically add more fuel and make more HP. The thing is, your statement is wrong if the car already runs a richer AFR. You can add more air and NOT add more fuel, which will gain HP leaning out the AFR. So speaking generally about this topic, can be kind of hard. There are a lot of variables to describing how this works and why it makes power. This may be better done over the phone with a tech. Give us a call if you'd like more information, (503)-693-1702

And they figured out the airflow is smooth across the sensor. ECU can only compensate so much fuel.
On a factory tune with lean/rich spots that acts like Sybil on her period. I don't think I'm just going to plunk on CAI and call it good. Shitty tune and then let's lean it out some more. Sounds like sound logic.
 
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