OK so I have now I think blown my second engine. Like the first this one also failed at the track during and HPDE event. I just had the 60k service done on this past Tuesday at Cobb Plano and had them go over the car to make sure everything looked great. She checks out. Go to the track and after the first session I filled my Cucso catch can. So I drain it. I fill the oil back to the full mark. Upon start up I get a little smoke out of the exhaust. I assume at the time the smoke is just blow by. I run the car again which honestly seems fine. After the session I have about 10oz of oil in the catch can again. So I drain and refill the car. While in staging before the next run I notice the car is just smoking at idle. I like a dumb ass do the run and half way through the run I feel like I am down on power. I did do a log during the run and about when I feel power loss you can see the Feedback knock hitting 2.48 on WOT. The catch can again had about 10-12oz of oil in it. I drain and refill the car. Now upon start up this time no smoke and while idle no smoke. I rev it and no smoke. I am hopeful. On the way home which is a one and half hour drive I get 90 or so knocks on cylinder 1 & 4 and about 20 something on cylinders 2 & 3. I can though accelerate fine it seems with no knock under acceleration. The knocks seemed to only occur while cruising. I get almost all the way home and I try and give her some gas and when she tried to go into boost she bogs down. I try it one more time and she does it again. I pull into the house and park her. Now the question is what to do. What is the worst case scenario and typical cost to repair. Oh the first engine was warranted which is the reason I dont know cost to fix.
Engine number two!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Boogieman98
- Start date
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
I would say the first thing to do is a compression test. You can do it yourself. The tools are cheap.
I just dropped about $3000 to replace my motor with a stock block and I am doing all of the work myself.
Uhm... didn't I tune this car? I would like to see that log if possible.
I just dropped about $3000 to replace my motor with a stock block and I am doing all of the work myself.
Uhm... didn't I tune this car? I would like to see that log if possible.
You did tune this car a many of times. I am going to do a compression test either tonight or tomorrow. If the compression test comes back ok what else could it be? Would I be getting that much blow by normally at the track? Here is the video of my last run. I am running at High RPM for a long time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBpCBet2JpU
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
If the compression test comes back okay then it would likely be the turbo. If the compression test comes back bad, it still could be the turbo that is the root cause. It could have leaked excessive oil into the intake system and the oil could have caused excessive knock. The continued high RPM could be a extenuating cause as well. One thing we should have done, but did not think about, is actually log a session on the track and tune for those conditions.
Looking back at your tune I suspect that something was not quite right back then because your primary timing table is way lower than than any of my other tunes which suggests that we were seeing knock and I was compensating for it with timing. I will look back at the dialog we had to see if I mentioned it at any point. I need to know why the timing is so low because this is not normal.
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Looking back at your tune I suspect that something was not quite right back then because your primary timing table is way lower than than any of my other tunes which suggests that we were seeing knock and I was compensating for it with timing. I will look back at the dialog we had to see if I mentioned it at any point. I need to know why the timing is so low because this is not normal.
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Well the compression test didn't go so well. Actually didn't get to test anything. The compression tool broke and the part that broke sucked into the cylinder. F&CK!!!!! Why me why!! It was some release valve looking thing.
It is on the end of the hose. Just sucked right in.
On the tune Holy we were getting bad gas well at least that is what we determined if I remember correctly. The car ran fine for a long time since then. No issues what so ever. But I was not actually on your tune this past weekend. I had Cobb install a new E85 set up with 1000cc injectors. Calvin actually said that cylinder 3 needed more fuel then the others which was not common but other than that the car ran fine.
How do I test the turbo to see if that was or is the issue and more importantly how do I get that piece out of the cylinder?
It is on the end of the hose. Just sucked right in.
On the tune Holy we were getting bad gas well at least that is what we determined if I remember correctly. The car ran fine for a long time since then. No issues what so ever. But I was not actually on your tune this past weekend. I had Cobb install a new E85 set up with 1000cc injectors. Calvin actually said that cylinder 3 needed more fuel then the others which was not common but other than that the car ran fine.
How do I test the turbo to see if that was or is the issue and more importantly how do I get that piece out of the cylinder?
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Do you have a magnetic wand? That might help. Other than that I am out of ideas...
Anyone else want to chime in???
I looked at the log you sent me. It doesn't indicate any misfires so that is encouraging. At wide open throttle, the ECU is both adding timing in some areas and removing timing in others. Most of it is learned knock so it takes away the timing before it even hears any so that is also encouraging. Regardless we will not be able to tell anything more until we see the results of the compression test so we have to figure out how to get that piece out of there.
To check the turbo, unfortunately you will need to remove it to check everything. Typically there will be allot of oil after the turbo and in the intercooler and throttle body. It is usually dry before the turbo. If it is blow-by that is the problem, then it will be wet from the intake all the way to the throttle body. You also need to check the shaft play. That is a good indication of a bad turbo
You might be able to get a video scope down the turbo inlet and poke around that way
In a way it is refreshing to hear that it was not my tune but I am truly sorry this happened to you and it sucks this happened at all, Regardless if there is anything I can do to help you I will do my best.
Anyone else want to chime in???
I looked at the log you sent me. It doesn't indicate any misfires so that is encouraging. At wide open throttle, the ECU is both adding timing in some areas and removing timing in others. Most of it is learned knock so it takes away the timing before it even hears any so that is also encouraging. Regardless we will not be able to tell anything more until we see the results of the compression test so we have to figure out how to get that piece out of there.
To check the turbo, unfortunately you will need to remove it to check everything. Typically there will be allot of oil after the turbo and in the intercooler and throttle body. It is usually dry before the turbo. If it is blow-by that is the problem, then it will be wet from the intake all the way to the throttle body. You also need to check the shaft play. That is a good indication of a bad turbo
You might be able to get a video scope down the turbo inlet and poke around that way
In a way it is refreshing to hear that it was not my tune but I am truly sorry this happened to you and it sucks this happened at all, Regardless if there is anything I can do to help you I will do my best.
I will go get a bore scope today and see if I can find that metal peice.
When I take the oil cap off white smoke is puffing out like a coal train. What would cause that if not Ringland failure?
Even if it was your tune there would be nothing you could do to avoid oil starvation or a turbo letting go. Your tunes are solid. Kinda felt like a traitor changing to a Cobb tune ha ha
When I take the oil cap off white smoke is puffing out like a coal train. What would cause that if not Ringland failure?
Even if it was your tune there would be nothing you could do to avoid oil starvation or a turbo letting go. Your tunes are solid. Kinda felt like a traitor changing to a Cobb tune ha ha
Definitely start with compression test first.
Nice hoodie in the video by the way.
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I like the sweater although I should have got a size bigger. Still rocking the old window sticker on the back of the car too.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
I have no ego to bruise
. It almost confirms something was wrong somewhere because Cobb's pro tunes are solid as well. If it happened on someone else's tune then I would have some doubts... And that they had the car and couldn't see any obvious issue beyond cylinder 3 needing more fuel is kinda refreshing to me as well because I don't feel so bad for missing something I should have seen. Could you have had another bad tank of gas? Perhaps you could have the gas tested and sue the gas station to pay for a new engine.Smoke out the oil filler usually means ring land. I would bet that the compression test will fail. I am terribly sorry.
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I call Cobb Plano and ask them what worse case scenario would be for a short block replacement. Neil said that it would cost 13k worse case depending on the level of damage. He said that it would cost $800 to tear it down to see what is actually wrong with it. Does that 13k sound insane to anyone else?
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Is this going to be a built block or a stock replacement? As mentioned, built blocks could be upwards around that installed. Do you have the means to do anything yourself?
I just asked Neil at Cobb what would be the worse case scenario to fix it. Didn't say I wanted to do a built block or nothing. And that isn't a turbo either. Just repair what is broken.
On the means to do it I don't really know all that the job entails to be honest and I don't know of anyone local that could help me do it. I did find out who the guy is that builds Cobb motors as it is the same guy that did my cousins GTR for T1. It is Watts Shop in Lavon TX which is only 20 minutes from my house. Cobb's STi is actually on his page and Cobb Plano's facebook has liked his page. I take that as confirmation he is there guy. My cousin was saying that I could just take the engine out of the car and have him tell me what I need and then have him build it. After he is done I could put it back int he car and then Holy if you are up to it tune it. Although all of this is probably more work then I realize.
I used a bore scope and found the piece that came off the compression tool. Unfortunately it is stuck between the cylinder wall and piston. It doesn't look like it has marred up the wall at all but it is hard to see.
On the means to do it I don't really know all that the job entails to be honest and I don't know of anyone local that could help me do it. I did find out who the guy is that builds Cobb motors as it is the same guy that did my cousins GTR for T1. It is Watts Shop in Lavon TX which is only 20 minutes from my house. Cobb's STi is actually on his page and Cobb Plano's facebook has liked his page. I take that as confirmation he is there guy. My cousin was saying that I could just take the engine out of the car and have him tell me what I need and then have him build it. After he is done I could put it back int he car and then Holy if you are up to it tune it. Although all of this is probably more work then I realize.
I used a bore scope and found the piece that came off the compression tool. Unfortunately it is stuck between the cylinder wall and piston. It doesn't look like it has marred up the wall at all but it is hard to see.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Yeah that price seems steep. I Just purchased a brand new stock block and some used heads which I am sending out for rebuild, plus new cams, timing kit, clutch, flywheel, gasket set and every other conceivable part plus fluids all for just under $6000. I can not imagine that it should cost another $7000 for labor and tune. You shouldn't have to replace your heads but I do recommend having them cleaned up and resurfaced.
It sounds to me that you can get away with spending only around $5000 if you can find someone to help you. If worse comes to worse I will fly out to you and help you install it, but do not pay that much for a stock block.
It sounds to me that you can get away with spending only around $5000 if you can find someone to help you. If worse comes to worse I will fly out to you and help you install it, but do not pay that much for a stock block.
like [MENTION=9]HolyCrapItsFast[/MENTION] said don't pay that much for stock for 13kish you can buy a fully built Cosworth long-block. That being said my build that i am planing on doing will include getting head rebuilt for the top side, and new pistons/connecting rods, new gaskets, and arp hardware all the way through on the bottom end. With labor i am gonna be at about 5.5k. However, I will be pulling the motor and dissembling/re-assembling it myself. If you do not have the proper tools to check clearance's and trq down everything to spec i would not recommend the dissemble/re-assemble your self, but pulling the motor is pretty straight forward. If you have any questions on pulling the motor fell free to ask.
Also Dont run that engine with that piece stuck between the piston and cylinder wall. It will destroy your block
Also Dont run that engine with that piece stuck between the piston and cylinder wall. It will destroy your block
I don't think I will attempt doing the build my self as this is a daily driver and I need reliability more so than a track monster. The question is I guess at this point what do I build. Do I go back stock or upgrade. The car is just over 3 years old and has 60k miles on it because I drive a lot of highway. I know the question has been asked so many times but is there a build over stock that I can build that is reliable? Jordan over a Defined Performance suggested going with a IAG Stage 2 2.5L Short Block, Gates Timing Belt, Oil Pump, Killer B Trio, ARP head Stud Kit and OEM gasket kit.
It's hard to say what's reliable. Too many variants to give a one answer covers all. Even if you get all good part one thing wrong can kill an entire motor. That being said, it's bet to use quality parts and have someone that knows what they are doing to build the motor. If you don't have that level of trust with anyone around you, you could always just buy a Long block. For my build I that I am going to use mostly as a daily driver I decided to use cosworth pistons and rods, OEM crank and arp studs with stock gaskets. I chose cosworth because they are a forged piston that's between OEM and race, but still forged. However I am willing to drop 2k on just Pistons and rods alone. I also did not want any piston slap on cold starts.. Think about what your goals are, and what your budget is and go from there. If you find your budget can't afford your goals start saving till the two coincide with each other.
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I think my budget is going to be around the 10k mark. But that will include a new turbo and tuning as well. I want to make sure nothing else fails anytime soon. Outside of Cosworth long blocks what else is there?
