My Current Mods + How Much $ = 450whp

[Batmobile_Engage]

I've been researching this for a couple years now. There are so many different setups
out there, so many different tuners, some people running meth, some E85, some 100oct.
etc. etc...

Since I trust the opinion of all you guys more than some ass clowns on NAZIoc for example,
here goes nothing...

Current Mods: (at least what is pertinent)

Maddad V2 Header and Up-pipe, wrapped.
Perrin Fuel Rails
Walbro 255lp/h Fuel Pump
DW 850cc Inj
Phenolic Spacers
GT3071R Turbo IWG (stock location)
3" Invidia partially divorced wastegate downpipe
3" Cobb SS catback
Perrin Stealth Black FMIC
-blow-thru MAF boost tube
Synapse Engineering synchronic BOV-VTA
Frankenstein'd 3" short ram intake
AMS 3" turbo inlet pipe
AEM-HD 5 gallon methanol injection kit (currently on 100% methanol
but might like to go 51/49 in the future, idk yet.)

Output: 385whp/367wtq (Dynojet at ~50 degrees F) [327whp/312wtq (Mustang Dyno at 89 degrees F)
--Both at 18.5 psi of boost.

I know I'm going to need some forged pistons and rods... I suppose
it's a smart idea to get a nitrated crank, but what about the heads and
cams? I don't want this to get retarded expensive, as heads and cams
can be (not to mention the whole engine build labor), but is any head/
cam work necessary to achieve 450whp?

I'm just trying to figure out what it's going to cost me when it's all said
and done...

Thoughts?

 

[finallymysti]

i'm not sure about the getting to 450 but to get a really good engine built is probably around 5k or more

 

[Grinder34]

I'm sure you know...but numbers are very dyno-dependent! You might want to specify which dyno or dyno-type, or use a different metric.

As for the build, i dunno. Hopefully more people will chime in soon.

 

[Bang876]

I dont think cams or header is really necessary for 450whp. I suggest upgrading injectors and converting to top feed, AEM 3.5 Bar Map Sensor, fuel pump, Fuel pressure Regulator, with a good tune on a mustang dyno. This should give you plenty of options to attain your goal but also enable you to run E85 if you so choose since FIC 1100cc injectors can easily spray E85. I personally have notice a huge power gain by upgrading to FIC 1100cc Injectors, Top Feed Fuel rail, and the above parts I listed. I was able to push 418whp/380TQ/22psi/92pump with stock heads and cam on a mustang dyno on a very conservative tune with GT35R rotated turbo kit. My tuner showed me the graph stats and I was only using about 70% of the Injectors on pump gas so plenty of room to play. For bang for your buck I would suggest at least forge pistons, injectors, rails, pump, and a fuel pressure regulator. In addition I think you should be able to easily reached 450whp with your current set up if you upgrade your fuel pump and injectors to run E85.

The butcher bill for me was about $2500

Fic 1100cc injectors $500
FIC Top Feed Rails Conversion $250
AEM 3.5 Bar Map sensor $170
Aeromotive FPR $120
Grimmspeed BCS $120
Fuel pump $200

Installation and tuning was a little over $1000
Mike at PIA started working at 8am and didnt finish until about 5pm.

If you do decide to upgrade the pistons, rods, etc tag on another $4-$5k with labor and parts.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

Cams would be a good idea if you're going to crack the motor.

Even for a daily driver?

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Even 272's can be very street worthy. It's all in the tune :tup:

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

272s sound sick but I think if I installed cams, they'd be 264s. I'm trying to keep this streetable
and still scare the V8's around here, on the street and periodically on the track.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, this turbo is rated for 26 psi of boost MAX and I'm making good
numbers on 18.5 with meth. Provided that I change out the pistons, rods and probably the crank
as well, for reliability purposes...should I be able to achieve 450whp with basically larger injectors
and a good tune? I figure 25 psi and methanol might be enough to do it....is my thinking off?

Lastly, would it be cheaper and easier to buy a performance shortblock for about $3,000, have some
one do a motor swap for me and be done with it?

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

True, but you lose bottom end with 272s. That duration is meant to have more supporting headwork and also is made for a more race oriented build. For a strictly street car, I would pick 264s.

Also, when going to a 272 there is typically more need for buckets.

True true. Wasn't thinking thorough enough when I said that.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

I've read the head thread a couple times. Great read, but still doesn't answer my question completely. Makes me want performance heads real bad though...lol

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

Basically what I'm saying is, can I rebuild my motor, tune for 25 psi with meth and make 450 without getting into the crazy expensive shit. I would love heads and cams but if its not necessary, then fuck it. Then also, would it be cheaper to buy the parts and have a shop do a rebuild or have a shop do a performance shortblock swap.

 

[Grinder34]

isn't 25 psi way higher than the stock turbo's efficiency range?

Remember you can (probably) get 800 whp on a stock motor. But you'll only get it once before it goes boom. That might be an exaggeration, but just because you can doesnt mean its a good idea.

 

[Grinder34]

ah ok. sorrrrry! i missed that.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

I've looked into this subject for a few years now...you can research this topic until the cows come home and not get
a definitive answer unless you perform the motor build, tune and see what happens. I've never done this before and
many of you have, which is why I'm asking. Apparently, I'm not asking the right questions.

My turbo can support up to 26psi of boost. Moving up to at least a 1000cc injector and turning up the boost to about
24-25 psi with methanol should yield 450-ish to the wheel. Correct?
Obviously, I want the motor to be reliable because it's my daily driver, so I will have forged internals installed.

With all other variables remaining equal, it should be possible to make 450whp with that boost level and the appropriate
fuel...Correct?

I'm trying to make this as simple as possible.

 

[IGOTASTi]

I was told from a very reliable tuner that 400 HP is the max you want on a stock motor before it starts to really wear on it. I have seen 400 HP STi's all day with no issues.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

I will periodically beat it up on the track, so I'm definitely installing forged internals so
it doesn't eat every ringland in the motor. I was just thinking that after replacing the
internals for safety...if I increased the injector size and the boost pressure, I'll reach
my 450whp goal (without head work, etc.).

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I've looked into this subject for a few years now...you can research this topic until the cows come home and not get
a definitive answer unless you perform the motor build, tune and see what happens. I've never done this before and
many of you have, which is why I'm asking. Apparently, I'm not asking the right questions.

My turbo can support up to 26psi of boost. Moving up to at least a 1000cc injector and turning up the boost to about
24-25 psi with methanol should yield 450-ish to the wheel. Correct?
Obviously, I want the motor to be reliable because it's my daily driver, so I will have forged internals installed.

With all other variables remaining equal, it should be possible to make 450whp with that boost level and the appropriate
fuel...Correct?

I'm trying to make this as simple as possible.

The answer to that is "yes" all day. The educated answer to that is "Should you?"

There are several ways to get to a level of power and there are right ways and then there are short cuts. I think this is what others are trying to get at mostly. It is my opinion and, though I can't speak for Edwin, I'm pretty sure it is his as well, that you need to component mach everything to work properly with each other and with your goal. It is one thing to pump 26psi of boost for the purposes of making 450WHP, but it is another to match all of your components and achieve that same horse power at a much lower boost level plus end up with a much better power and torque curve.

Looking at your MOD list I don't see why you can't achieve your power goal as it stands. But if you want to improve things like reliability, driveability, consistency in power, achieving usable power and at the right time, then you will need to step up your mod list to include suggested cams and head work. I see you are already considering internals and that is a good idea to support 450whp reliably but I have to stress that a build is only as reliable as the machine work that goes into it. Know who your machinist is and take control of your build.

I might add that ditching the Blow Through maf and going speed density is going to be a huge improvement. Also I didn't see TGV deletes on your list. You should do those if you didn't already

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

There we go...now this is more like what I was looking for.

 

[Airpig]

I'm going to give you a good contact that's well known engine builder Sean at Vigilant Motorsports builds some of the most wicked power producing engines but has helped me out when strapped for cash more times than I'd care to discuss. His name is Sean Giles and his number is 618-960-0419 and his site is www.vigilantmotorsports.com

He wil discuss power goals and what's necessary to meet those goals. He builds airplane engines as well as did my wife's. It's worth a shot to get a plan for ya.

 

[Grinder34]

Airpig, we're always interested in more shop reviews...we've got a somewhat sparse section for those here: http://www.igotasti.com/vBforum/forumdisplay.php?283-Shop-Reviews

 

[Airpig]

Ok will do Grinder