Best brake & rotor set-up for auto-cross & daily driver?

[icudruln]

Geoff, are any of the stainless lines better than one another? I've just seen the STi, Stoptech, and Goodridge lines out there as the most popular. I figure to do the lines, TiC Master Cylinder Brace, new brake fluid, and some new pads in the summer time.


+1 to it sounding like air was in Badlands' lines

 

[BadlandsRacer]

Geoff, are any of the stainless lines better than one another? I've just seen the STi, Stoptech, and Goodridge lines out there as the most popular. I figure to do the lines, TiC Master Cylinder Brace, new brake fluid, and some new pads in the summer time.


+1 to it sounding like air was in Badlands' lines

This wasn't addressed to me, but I think the StopTech lines are a bit overpriced. The Goodridge lines are far more reasonable, and it doesn't seem to me as though there would be a major difference in quality.

+1 to the TiC master cylinder brace.

 

[icudruln]

This wasn't addressed to me, but I think the StopTech lines are a bit overpriced. The Goodridge lines are far more reasonable, and it doesn't seem to me as though there would be a major difference in quality.

+1 to the TiC master cylinder brace.

I've run the Goodridge on previous cars, and liked the quality. I'll probably just stick with them for the Subie. How big of a difference did the TiC master cylinder brace make?

 

[joey.lisano]

And now GrimmSpeed just made one. I better jump on the bandwagon and make one...

Too bad I'm already redesigning a bracket that mounts a brake booster to the firewall for an OEM. The goal is cost cutting, and the bracket only costs a few bucks.

 

[joey.lisano]

Oh? Making it fit all subies?

No, nothing to do with Subaru, just a semi-fitting comment that was meant to poke fun at brackets. As far as the design, a master cylinder brace does not need to be forged by Thor's hammer and made of unobtanium. At the end of the day, it's a bracket, and being there is 90% of the job.

I was trying to make fun of how everyone comes out with the same product within a small time frame. Awhile ago, everyone decided to make an air oil separators. Then it was suspiciously-inexpensive intercoolers and headers. Afterward, $1000 coilovers that all claim to be the real deal and better than the competition; they can't all be the best. Now it's master cylinder braces. I may be exaggerating a bit, but the wave of similar parts makes me chuckle nonetheless. I like to see unique and fresh ideas and designs, even if I'll never buy it.

 

[IGOTASTi]

I'm bringing this thread back to life as I'm ready to do my brakes as of now. Plus we have a ton more people on the site. :lol:

What brake fluid should I change to and what do you think is a great combo for rotors and brakes?

DBA 4000's and HP Pads?

 

[Grinder34]

Combo for what use? Daily? HPDE? Auto-X?

Unless you answer HPDE, chances are you can use anything--even the cheapo stuff. Obviously I'd shy away from bargain basement things, but they'll honestly hold up fine for even a few auto-x runs. But moving up a level any Hawk, stoptech, etc.. pads will be fine. Really any rotors should work, and any DOT3 brake fluid.

If you wanted to have THE BEST, i'd say some DBA 5000 for the light weight, ATE SuperBlue (or at least a DOT4), and the pads... well HP+ i guess, for the street. Then you start getting into SS brake lines, master cylinder braces, etc...


For my car, for the streetand spirited driving, i use some cheapo Autozone pads: Wagner ThermoQuiet...about $35 for fronts, $25 for the rears. They've been great. I switch to DTC-30s for the track though.

 

[IGOTASTi]

Grinder they don't make the DBA 5000's all the way around. Also I don't want the cheap stuff.

Your talking to the king of doing it right the first time. :lol:

 

[Grinder34]

Grinder they don't make the DBA 5000's all the way around. Also I don't want the cheap stuff.

Your talking to the king of doing it right the first time. :lol:

"Doing it right" for me is getting the best results for the lowest price. Unless you're getting the brakes REALLY hot, you dont need that much in the way of fortifying the brake system.

If i lived in the mountains and were doing long canyon runs, i'd probably change my pads, but for my spirited driving here i've never had an ounce of worry with budget pads.

I forgot to mention TI brake shims in my previous post. They can help with keeping heat out of the brake fluid. Also, brake ducts (Roo Ducts), etc... will help if you really need the extra braking power.

 

[ZachTTLM]

You know my opinion of the rotors and pads. Far as the fluid goes, Motul RBF 600 Brake Fluid is what I recommend. It is a DOT4 fluid with a higher boiling point temperature which mean it will take more during hard braking situations.

 

[STimedic]

JJ, here's what I've used for the last 4yrs and it's worked out great to date: DBA 4000's, HPS pads, s/s lines, Perrin master cylinder brace and ATE SuperBlue. Why ATE? Well, coolant is green, oil is oil, tranny fluid smells like shit and P/S fluid is red. Makes tracing any leaks easier......

But that's my take. If I manage to get some track time in, I've been looking at the DTC70's. But for spirited driving, mountain roads and occasional track use, I have yet to warp or eat through rotors or pads. And you can ask Gino, I'm not the nicest to my car. Doing 85 through the winding mountain section of I-40 between Asheville and Knoxville, several trips to the mountains back in CO.....not a single problem to date.

 

[Stiyle11sedan]

I have to agree with the DBA rotors and add Hawk HP pads, also I would consider doing braided lines and using super blue fluids....I had that setup on my Evo IX and tracked it a lot. It is a great setup and the DBA rotors won't warp as fast as the stock ones. Just my .02

 

[STi FR3AK]

I had a decent talk with Geoff @ Cygnus the other day as I'm going to order my brakes on the first. He told me that the DBA T2 Street Series were cast from the same blanks as the DBA 4000's. The only difference being that the 4k's have a thermal coating to show how hot the brakes get and might have an extra slot. Other than that, they're pretty much the same. So we came the conclusion that I'm going to get:
-DBA T2 Street Series rotors f/r
-Project Mu B Force pads f/r
-Goodridge ss lines
-Motul RBF 600 fluid

If I get them before you get your brakes, I'll let you know how it all holds up against hard (autobahn speeds) braking I can't stand it when I'm CRUISING @ 110-130mph and someone that has been sitting behind a semi gets over into my lane. I scared the wife cuz you're NOT supposed to pass on the right on the autobahn but I was going so fast and he was probly going 60-70mph so I passed him and squeezed between a huge gap of him and the semi. I told her I didn't want to slam on the brakes since I roasted them on the Ring.

 

[Vermont]

All I have to say on this issue is stay away from slotted and drilled rotors.... They are a waste of time and money, They are also much more likely to crack or fracture. What is best are simple ventilated blank Brembos with a good set of pads, stainless steel brake lines and high temp fluid. Pretty much any brand will work, just stay away from the track only equipment. The reason being a lot of the track only pads and rotors, you need to build heat up before the brakes will work correctly. For DD use and occasional track, stick with a mild pad like the Hawk HPS or some Green Stuff. As a warning stock pads will heat fracture at the track.

 

[finallymysti]

when you are new to track a street pad is fine but once you get going faster you really need to go to a track/street brake setup. and once you get going legitamitley fast you need real track brakes. i think that certain track pads you can dd. i have ferodo ds1.11 that i dd even though they are a track pad. just if cruiseing on the highway apply the brakes every so often to have some heat in them.

 

[ZachTTLM]

I agree with Vermont that drilled and slotted aren't the way to go. The DBA 4000s just with slots are perfect with what you are looking for.

 

[Grinder34]

when you are new to track a street pad is fine but once you get going faster you really need to go to a track/street brake setup. and once you get going legitamitley fast you need real track brakes. i think that certain track pads you can dd. i have ferodo ds1.11 that i dd even though they are a track pad. just if cruiseing on the highway apply the brakes every so often to have some heat in them.

Any pad that will hold up to real abuse on the track will be unsafe on the highway. If you're religious about applying the brakes often enough you can get away with it, but a panic stop will put you into the car in front of you.

I tried this once, and freeway exits were scary. Had WAAAY too many close encounters with track pads on the street to ever consider them a viable option.

 

[Vermont]

when you are new to track a street pad is fine but once you get going faster you really need to go to a track/street brake setup. and once you get going legitamitley fast you need real track brakes. i think that certain track pads you can dd. i have ferodo ds1.11 that i dd even though they are a track pad. just if cruiseing on the highway apply the brakes every so often to have some heat in them.

You are correct in that once you start getting into the more advanced classes and doing part time time attacks that the street pads will not hold up well enough, but the problem is track pads on the road are unsafe, due to the operating temperatures they are meant to function at. It can mean that on one cold wet morning some one cuts you off and hits the brakes, you will be unable too stop in time; also with these higher temp and higher strength pads you have to upgrade your rotors as well, as you can get the pads eating the rotors away in a worse case scenario. I don't think this is possible with the stock STI Brembo rotors as I have yet to hear of it, but I am not sure.

In so far as the slotted/drilled vrs blanks issue, I read a very well put together article a little while ago and need to dredge it up that explains the reasons why you don't want to go slotted or drilled. The main thing is you are taking away thermal mass (stuff that heats up) so you are decreasing the maximum amount of heat your rotor can absorb before it becomes useless. Brakes are a heat sink, you are turning the cars forward inertia into heat by clamping the pads to the rotors, the rotors then disperse this heat into the cool moving air. Slots or holes will it will have no effect what so ever on stopping power, that is all down to your brake calipers and the hydraulics. SOME applications find that light slots (indentations really) helps with pad bite.

The reason most people say they go with slotted or drilled is too allow for a the gasses created from braking to escape. The rebuttal to that is modern brake pads do not create enough gases to cause what some brake companies say can happen (I.E. slippage of the pad before contact). Others say that is helps with heat dispersion as it gives more surface area, this while slightly true in that more surface area is better the fact remains that you are adding so little too the total surface are that the effects are negligible, and counter acted by the reduction in mass of the rotor. Something else to think about is that when GM did a test on comparing drilled to blanks they found that the pads had far more deterioration on the drilled rotors than on the blanks.

The bottom line is that slotted and drilled rotors are for looks not for the track. Look at F1, touring, or rally cars. All of them use either blanks or in the case of some 24 hour endurance cars they use the slotted indentations. Also drilled rotors have a tendency to crack and fracture at the track. Some even fracturing the entire rotor in half. The reason for this being most companies do not mold the rotors them selves. They drill out blanks they buy from a third party. Even the stock drilled Porsche GT3 rotors crack more frequently then blanks.