Some advice for this

[CSF707]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mZgSwqtjBghz5USe0Z6QW_sp1VJDH8_UHyCkqdEP7bE/edit?usp=sharing
I'm still reading up on stuff but I was wondering if I could get some tips to correct some of the knocks here?

11' STi
Stage 1 OTS
Cobb SF Intake
Invidia Cat back exhaust, Q300
Grimspeed heat shield
Killer Bee oil pickup
Crawford AOS v2
Perrin Turbo Inlet
STI Group N motor mounts
Stage 2 Competition clutch
Ariel pistons, stock clearances
Eagle rods, Stock length

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I can't seem to open the link you provided.

 

[Spamby]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mZgSwqtjBghz5USe0Z6QW_sp1VJDH8_UHyCkqdEP7bE/edit?usp=sharing
I'm still reading up on stuff but I was wondering if I could get some tips to correct some of the knocks here?

Stage 1 OTS
Cobb SF Intake
Invidia Cat back exhaust, Q300
Grimspeed heat shield
Killer Bee oil pickup
Crawford AOS v2
Perrin Turbo Inlet
STI Group N motor mounts
Stage 2 Competition clutch
Ariel pistons, stock clearances
Eagle rods, Stock length

I'm confused. You don't have an STI. Where is this coming from ?

 

[CSF707]

I can't seem to open the link you provided.

Strange, I see someone else on it. Its viewable by anyone with link with no sign in required.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mZgSwqtjBghz5USe0Z6QW_sp1VJDH8_UHyCkqdEP7bE/edit?usp=sharing

I'm confused. You don't have an STI. Where is this coming from ?

It's the previous STi I used to work on, I put more miles on that STi than the current owner Well on the stock engine that is lol. Now he's building a beast!

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Strange, I see someone else on it. Its viewable by anyone with link with no sign in required.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mZgSwqtjBghz5USe0Z6QW_sp1VJDH8_UHyCkqdEP7bE/edit?usp=sharing


It's the previous STi I used to work on, I put more miles on that STi than the current owner

http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt346/CSF_Photography/11STiLog_zps3a494b63.png

Do you know what the AFR's were during this run?

You can take solace in the fact that this is not terrible in that your Dynamic Advance is still positive and your DAM is "1". This means that it was removing timing to the point where it heard no more but it was still applying timing above the base. Also the amount of total timing applied is about right. You might have a tank of bad or poor quality gas. Regardless it would be ideal if there was no knock at all but at least the ECU is doing it's job of protecting your motor.

Try filling up at a different good name brand gas station than what you usually fill up at.

If it persists then you should let someone (a tuner) look at it.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

BTW the link still did not work for me but that could be because I am at work and the firewall is a bitch!

 

[kbaldi29]

DAM in this car 1 means that is running full timing, at least it is in Cobb, you wont see 16 as you would on Open source or older WRX/STI.

The log shows 9-12 degress of timing at peak torque which is around normal, so i dont think the problem is you are running too much timing. On top is running around 20, but thats after the computer started seeing knock and pulled timing off, which means your target timing was around 22-24 degress at those RPMs, Which is a little High not outrageous .

I would log your AVCS on both cams(4 cams if STI), Subaru get that kind of knock when is running too much AVCS advance/retard or one of the cams is staying locked at different position than what it is commanded. Log all AVCS and make sure they are close to each other... Intake Left = Intake Right / Exhaust left = exhaust right.
Get New gas and make another pull... this time logging you AVCS on all cams, IAT and if possible get AFR Current readings, that will confirm your AFRs are close to target and that is not the reason of the knock. Also What intercooler are you using?

 

[CSF707]

Do you know what the AFR's were during this run?

You can take solace in the fact that this is not terrible in that your Dynamic Advance is still positive and your DAM is "1". This means that it was removing timing to the point where it heard no more but it was still applying timing above the base. Also the amount of total timing applied is about right. You might have a tank of bad or poor quality gas. Regardless it would be ideal if there was no knock at all but at least the ECU is doing it's job of protecting your motor.

Try filling up at a different good name brand gas station than what you usually fill up at.

If it persists then you should let someone (a tuner) look at it.

Last fill up was Chevron, (California 91)

DAM in this car 1 means that is running full timing, at least it is in Cobb, you wont see 16 as you would on Open source or older WRX/STI.

The log shows 9-12 degress of timing at peak torque which is around normal, so i dont think the problem is you are running too much timing. On top is running around 20, but thats after the computer started seeing knock and pulled timing off, which means your target timing was around 22-24 degress at those RPMs, Which is a little High not outrageous .

I would log your AVCS on both cams(4 cams if STI), Subaru get that kind of knock when is running too much AVCS advance/retard or one of the cams is staying locked at different position than what it is commanded. Log all AVCS and make sure they are close to each other... Intake Left = Intake Right / Exhaust left = exhaust right.
Get New gas and make another pull... this time logging you AVCS on all cams, IAT and if possible get AFR Current readings, that will confirm your AFRs are close to target and that is not the reason of the knock. Also What intercooler are you using?

Thank you for all the information given so far guys, its quite helpful translating what all this stuff relates to

The intercooler is stock
Does have a grimmspeed solenoid and fuel pump that are not installed as of yet.

I'll make sure the above gets added to the next logging along with the following below and for reference the Cobb AP is being used.

• Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) (A/F Sens 1 Ratio)
• A/F Correction #1
• A/F Learning #1
• Air Intake Temp
• Boost
• Calculated Load
• Dynamic Advance
• Dynamic Advance Multiplier
• Engine Speed (RPM)
• Ignition Advance (Primary Ignition)
• Ignition Timing
• Knock Active Switch
• Knock Correction (Feedback Knock)
• Knock Learned (Fine Knock Learned)
• Throttle Position

 

[kbaldi29]

Last fill up was Chevron, (California 91)




Thank you for all the information given so far guys, its quite helpful translating what all this stuff relates to

The intercooler is stock
Does have a grimmspeed solenoid and fuel pump that are not installed as of yet.

I'll make sure the above gets added to the next logging along with the following below and for reference the Cobb AP is being used.

• Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) (A/F Sens 1 Ratio)
• A/F Correction #1
• A/F Learning #1
• Air Intake Temp
• Boost
• Calculated Load
• Dynamic Advance
• Dynamic Advance Multiplier
• Engine Speed (RPM)
• Ignition Advance (Primary Ignition)
• Ignition Timing
• Knock Active Switch
• Knock Correction (Feedback Knock)
• Knock Learned (Fine Knock Learned)
• Throttle Position

Timing could be a little highfor 91 oct....
Dont forget to log AVCS...

 

[CSF707]

Yea I mentioned that I was adding the stuff to log that was mentioned above and the list below. I just copy n pasted that list from the newbie logging guide that was specifically for timing & knock.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Are you using the CAN91 stage 1 map? if not then you are running stock level timing which is to aggressive for California 91 octane fuel IMO.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

DAM in this car 1 means that is running full timing, at least it is in Cobb, you wont see 16 as you would on Open source or older WRX/STI.

The difference is with the ECU. All 32 bit ECUs are 0-1 and all 16 bit ECUs are 0-16.

 

[CSF707]

Are you using the CAN91 stage 1 map? if not then you are running stock level timing which is to aggressive for California 91 octane fuel IMO.

Yes ACN91 Stage 1 +SF Intake v300

oh hey, I have a avatar now? Where that come from lols

 

[CSF707]

@HolyCrapItsFast @Spamby @kbaldi29

Here's run 2 and 3, how's everything looking?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RdnRkj6QMU6HqiS08ItFFJI_SUYzNYAGXjBSE2vbh6o/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sNtF0H623Y4aKKC8tZNIjLd2ZQC54Uoe5D5lrP4LIpk/edit?usp=sharing

On a side note [MENTION=1172]Alin[/MENTION] - Valvoline VR1 20w50 oil was recommended on his built motor, would you say this increase is normal?

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I don't see any issues with this. Ideally you don't want to see any knock during WOT but what you have going for you is that most of it is in the learned column which doesn't mean that there was any knock necessarily but that there was some history of knock and the ecu is removing timing in the event that knock does occur. Your dynamic advance is applying + timing so you are good. What knock there is, is no more than -1.4 in most cases and that is nothing horrible

If it really bothers you then get an e-tune. :tup: Otherwise it is okay.

 

[CSF707]

Thanks, just wanted to make the sure the ots tune was doing fine with the internals n parts.

There's also a downpipe, intercooler, grimmspeed boost solenoid, and fuel pump waiting to be installed. And also wanted to get injectors and y pipe purchased sometime when the protune happens sometime within the next couple months.

 

[Alin]

20w-50?!?! That seems crazy?!
[MENTION=4577]TK-421[/MENTION]

 

[CSF707]

Maybe I can get my broski to chime in Lols. I'm just relaying all the details so we can make sure his new rebuild is properly taken care of!

 

[TK-421]

20w-50?!?! That seems crazy?!
[MENTION=4577]TK-421[/MENTION]

Hmm didn't know we were dealing with a diesel build here....

If stock bearing clearances are being used, running a 20w-50 oil will actaully cause more harm than good. That weight of oil is wayyyyyy too thick for a car that has 5w-30 spec'd clearances from the factory. Subaru doesn't just close their eyes and throw a dart at a board to pick an oil weight.

So if the car had bearings installed for use with thicker oil clearances then maybe I could see using a thicker oil, most owners will switch out their stock weight oil for thicker oil on a track day to help with shear.

But to use 20w-50 on a daily driven car that's still using a stage 1 OTS is a pretty big no no. It's a bit like selling a snow plow truck to Hawaii, why? It's not like this engine is seeing any amount of excessive heat or shearing of the oil. I mean even if the owner romped the piss out of it I'd say bump it up to 10w-30 but 20w-50 is just saying hey I love to starve my mains and rod bearings. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that AVCS like VTEC, VVTi, MiVEC and so forth is oil pressure actuated, the ECU can tell the cam phaser to do one thing but if there isn't enough oil pressure or the correct amount of oil pressure present AVCS is going to be all out of wack.

In conclusion I would try what [MENTION=9]HolyCrapItsFast[/MENTION] has mentioned, try a different brand of fuel, and drain that 20W and put the stock oil weight back in, at most a 10W-30, and see if that gains better results for you. I've been building engines for more than a decade and I've heard some crazy stuff, seen some crazy stuff so trust me when I say nothing good will come out of an engine running stock bearing clearances with a oil that's as thick as corn syrup.

 

[CSF707]

Thanks for the info [MENTION=4577]TK-421[/MENTION]

Buddy says he's just following what the engineer builder recommended oil wise. Quite strange!

Some background story

motor has 8k miles since rebuild.
4k miles with stage 1 +sf acn v300 and
4k miles with stage 2 + sf acn v333.
Blown headgasket happened
600 miles on stock tune
and now 100 miles on stage 1 +sf acn v300

What happened when it went poof was when an oil change was done at the dealer. Few miles going back home the engine failed with lots of rattle sounds.
A Recalled oil filter was installed.
Rebuild was completed, however there was crossed coolant lines that made the engine overheat several times, aftermarket raidiator was installed but of course this didn't fix the issue. Crossed lines was discovered later. A years worth of headaches it's finally up n running to where it's now.